Clarinda SH is not a Kirkbride

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I agree with all of the above. Kirkbrides are definitely looked upon as sacred in a way and given more value than other hospitals just for that fact. However, buildings like this to me are almost more important because so few of them were built during the brief time when kirks were on their way out and cottages were on their way in, especially Clarinda which is completely original to is design.

I love all hospitals and I love history, I just want to put clear and accurate information within reach of others who care about these places.

I have a friend in Iowa I might visit and try to see these places. Kirkbride or not it would still be my number one to see in the state, architecturally it is a masterpiece.

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Evil, I'm still confused. Nevada State Hospital (aka Missouri State Hospital #3) was a Kirkbride. They, like many other state hospital campus added quite a few buildings over the years. Yes there was a Infirmary Building, but it wasn't building #3, the whole hospital was #3, or the third state hospital built in Mo.

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WSH, et. al.,

http://www.dnr.mo.gov/shpo/nps-nr/05001330.pdf

If you go to the link with the PDF, the whole thing is for the X shaped infirmary building on the campus of Missouri Hospital Number 3. Check the pictures and see, this is at best a transitional kirkbride building. It lacks all of the normal features of a kirkbrides wings. The only thing the infirmary building shares with a true kirkbride is the central administration. I think the PDF is piggy backing the infirmary with the rest of the hospital complex, which may contain a kirkbride, but the building pictured in the pdf is not the kirkbride building. The building in the pdf isn't even from the right era; It was a WPA project from the 1930's. The authors of the pdf used the kirkbride name and proximity to the other hospitals to mislabel this particular building as a kirkbride. I can make no claim as to any other building on this campus, but this particular building is not a kirkbride.

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Yeah, essentially what I got was they called it a kirkbride as it had a central office section and wings coming off of it.

Very loose interpretation of the Kirkbride plan, lol.

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I know this thread is kind of done with but FWIW I did get a call back from the Superintendant's office on Friday. They stated that, "They've been trying to get ahold of a former employee there that was real interested in the history of the building in hopes I could talk to him to clarify things, but have been unable to reach him. However thier official stance was that the original building was built built following the guidlines set by Kirkbride".

This does raise the interesting question, and having never read Kirkbride's actual book I don't have the answer, of whether Kirkbride intended his concept to be followed strictly as a "plan" for asylums or more loosely simply as a "guildeline". Is anyone here privy to the exact wording/phrasing that Kirkbride used?
Edited On 5:48:04 PM - Mon, Sep 26th 2011 by WSH

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I personally would say that depends on the time in Kirkbride's life. From reading his biography, early on in his career after writing his book, he would have seen it as a set of guidelines to build asylums too. Plus with very little else to follow, everyone did follow his guidelines.

Yet, later on in life as more asylums were built, and also near the end of his life, Kirkbride saw it more as a plan that needed to be strictly adhered to. He was not happy with other asylums experimenting with the design beyond how he saw it. I remember reading other superintendents were chafing under his strictness.

So I guess it depends on the time in Kirkbride's life. I do remember reading that as soon as he passed away, most superintendents discarded his plan in search of something better which soon led to the development of the Cottage Plan model.

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It's also important to note however that in the 1880 editon Kirkbride released revisions of the original plan, realizing its defects.

He helped create St Elizabeth's and that itself was already divergent from his original liner plan being what he called the "improved kirkbride".

The 1880 edition also describes connecting admins and wards with multi story hallways and even had a completely different design for criminal insane hospitals.

As he aged he got more critical as other plans, especially the cottage plan. But he also expanded his plan to what I feel he saw as giving options to suit different needs and concerns providing the best method.

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Also.

Fulton MO can be added to the list of krikbrides with 4 floors.

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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nevada-MO-Postcard-State-Hospital-Lunatic-Insane-Asylum-/170666579...

Its 10.99, must be because its a kirkbride.

Oh Missouri, you crazy.

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http://www.thomas-industriesinc.com/ - Author of Harrisburg State Hospital (Images of America). Owner of City on the Hill & Danville State Hospital websites.

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Wow!!!
Why this is so interesting!!!

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Quote:Thomasp94 Wed 7th 11:59 am
Two things I just wanted to point out. I my research on PA hospitals I have noticed that sometimes the wording used to describe a floor in books and reports can be misleading because of the changes in language over the years. For instance it took me a little while to understand the floors at the Harrisburg Kirkbride, especially since for the longest time I had no photos. At Harrisburg the floor that is referred to as the basement is actually the first floor and the building actually had no basement, just some dirt tunnels the vents and heat pipes traveled through. The second floor was referred to as the main floor and the main entry was also on this floor. The basement at Harrisburg was indeed designed for patients and/or staff from the very beginning.

The other thing I wanted to point out is the areas of the buildings that join the wings. At Harrisburg and Davnille these are truly 4 floors. I have the blue prints to prove it. So what constitutes a 4 story kirksbride? Does the whole wing have to be 4 stories or not? Looking at the blue prints for Harrisburg it clearly has a 4th floor that was designed for patient use, but not the whole way across.

Harrisburg
zfloorplan_4_flr.jpg

Danville
DSH_EXT_06.jpg

DSH_EXT_23.jpg


Do you think the fourth floor areas were to house attendants and nurses? I think that would probably make the most sense.

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I can not speak for danville because i have no blueprints for that kirk. But the 4th floor wing junctions at Harrisburg were intended for patient use. The large room was a dormitory. I will have to go look at my full size photos to see what the other rooms are. Staff housing at HSH was originally the first floor of the kirk.

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Are you sure? It could have been an associated staff dormitory. It just does not make sense to me that they would have patients isolated like that and use the first floor wards for staff, but I suppose stranger things have happened.

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If a Kirkbride must be three floors, what about Saint Elizabeths Hospital which is four floors?

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There was no specific "has to be three floors" as much as most only needed that. I've seen a few which only had two floors. It was more a question on the planned patient population.


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